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	<title>Comments on: Interviewing Leather, Part Three</title>
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	<link>http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/07/10/interviewing-leather-part-three/</link>
	<description>Creative Mung from Eric A. Burns</description>
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		<title>By: Dan Miller</title>
		<link>http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/07/10/interviewing-leather-part-three/#comment-171</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:10:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/07/10/interviewing-leather-part-three/#comment-171</guid>
		<description>Great story.  For some inspiration on Leather&#039;s self-justification, you might look at a real-life analogue.  Wonkette has a column called &quot;Anonymous Lobbyist&quot; where a real lobbyist answers reader questions, and her tone is somewhat similar to leather, although separate--they&#039;re worth reading on their own.  It&#039;s worth a look.

http://wonkette.com/politics/ask-a-lobbyist/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great story.  For some inspiration on Leather&#8217;s self-justification, you might look at a real-life analogue.  Wonkette has a column called &#8220;Anonymous Lobbyist&#8221; where a real lobbyist answers reader questions, and her tone is somewhat similar to leather, although separate&#8211;they&#8217;re worth reading on their own.  It&#8217;s worth a look.</p>
<p><a href="http://wonkette.com/politics/ask-a-lobbyist/" rel="nofollow">http://wonkette.com/politics/ask-a-lobbyist/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Eric A. Burns</title>
		<link>http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/07/10/interviewing-leather-part-three/#comment-169</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric A. Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/07/10/interviewing-leather-part-three/#comment-169</guid>
		<description>Put another way -- this is how &lt;em&gt;this&lt;/em&gt; superhero universe is unfolding. I have a rather pathetically detailed timeline for the introduction and rise of superheroes in this little world, along with their backstory, the time considered innocent, the time considered less so... lots of &#039;stuff.&#039; That&#039;s the bible I&#039;m using when I write these, and yeah -- I contextualize the mystery men based upon it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Put another way &#8212; this is how <em>this</em> superhero universe is unfolding. I have a rather pathetically detailed timeline for the introduction and rise of superheroes in this little world, along with their backstory, the time considered innocent, the time considered less so&#8230; lots of &#8216;stuff.&#8217; That&#8217;s the bible I&#8217;m using when I write these, and yeah &#8212; I contextualize the mystery men based upon it.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric A. Burns</title>
		<link>http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/07/10/interviewing-leather-part-three/#comment-168</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric A. Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/07/10/interviewing-leather-part-three/#comment-168</guid>
		<description>One of the core questions and principles of the Justice Wing stories is &quot;why does this stuff happen the way it does?&quot; Superman and Batman don&#039;t fight anyone here -- they&#039;re comic book characters, to the people who are in this little playground.

Leather&#039;s thesis, deep down, is that superheroing (and villaining) is a lifestyle as much as anything else. And that by opposing heroes, she also justifies them. Which is her theory, not necessarily &lt;em&gt;the&lt;/em&gt; theory.

It is worth noting that very few people see themselves as evil. She alludes to some psychotics in the Justice Wing universe who do (the Jack O&#039;Knaves for one), but for the most part, the &#039;villains&#039; don&#039;t consider themselves evil so much as amoral.

However, Leather doesn&#039;t justify her actions as necessary to superheroes. She justifies them as &quot;getting lots of money to buy things, through crime.&quot; Her point is she doesn&#039;t &lt;em&gt;need&lt;/em&gt; to dress up in bondage wear to be a super powered criminal. She &lt;em&gt;likes&lt;/em&gt; doing it. Which is about as non-idealistic and real-worldly a reason I can think of.

Also, there&#039;s nothing grim and/or gritty about Leather. Just for the record. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the core questions and principles of the Justice Wing stories is &#8220;why does this stuff happen the way it does?&#8221; Superman and Batman don&#8217;t fight anyone here &#8212; they&#8217;re comic book characters, to the people who are in this little playground.</p>
<p>Leather&#8217;s thesis, deep down, is that superheroing (and villaining) is a lifestyle as much as anything else. And that by opposing heroes, she also justifies them. Which is her theory, not necessarily <em>the</em> theory.</p>
<p>It is worth noting that very few people see themselves as evil. She alludes to some psychotics in the Justice Wing universe who do (the Jack O&#8217;Knaves for one), but for the most part, the &#8216;villains&#8217; don&#8217;t consider themselves evil so much as amoral.</p>
<p>However, Leather doesn&#8217;t justify her actions as necessary to superheroes. She justifies them as &#8220;getting lots of money to buy things, through crime.&#8221; Her point is she doesn&#8217;t <em>need</em> to dress up in bondage wear to be a super powered criminal. She <em>likes</em> doing it. Which is about as non-idealistic and real-worldly a reason I can think of.</p>
<p>Also, there&#8217;s nothing grim and/or gritty about Leather. Just for the record. ;)</p>
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		<title>By: RHJunior</title>
		<link>http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/07/10/interviewing-leather-part-three/#comment-167</link>
		<dc:creator>RHJunior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/07/10/interviewing-leather-part-three/#comment-167</guid>
		<description>Good writing, but still fails the contextual common sense test, as did &quot;On Call.&quot;

It&#039;s a common conceit among writers that want to be &quot;dark and gritty&quot; or &quot;investigate the human state of moral ambiguity&quot; or whatever the popular term is for it these days in postmodern writing classes--- introducing some contextual justification for the dualist worldview. &quot;What is light without dark?&quot; &quot;Batman needs the Joker,&quot; all the way to the extreme of &quot;Heroes and villains are the same, just different names...&quot; 

Maybe a villainess would justify her own existence by clinging to the illusion that she was no different than the heroes or heroines--- or that the heroes or heroines &quot;needed&quot; her (or the tacky justification that she was ignored for not having huge boobs...) but no sensible person would buy that excuse for a second. And it would obviously be an excuse. Every criminal or thug has some sort of convoluted self-justifying system: they were underappreciated, the world owed them for their hard life, their father abused them, they&#039;re part of this &quot;victim class&quot; or the other, the good guys have it coming to them.... &quot;The heroes need me to justify their existence&quot; isn&#039;t used so often in the real world, but it&#039;s just as much a crock.

It wasn&#039;t flashy villains in tights that Superman and Batman first battled; it was gangsters, thieves, spies, crooked businessmen--- Superman even took a few panels to knock some sense into a common gutter-variety wifebeater in his first issue. And even without those, there were fires, floods, earthquakes, rampant monsters, crashing airplanes, and more that were beyond the capacity of mere mortal men.

Supervillains didn&#039;t show up until late in the game. Lex Luthor was just another mad scientist, and the Joker was just a petty gangster thug who got maimed by his own stupidity.  Their theatrics and garish costumes and gimmicks were &lt;i&gt;in reaction to&lt;/i&gt; the superheros and their flashy methodology.  (In fact most of the early stories revolved around LL&#039;s and Joker&#039;s envy and resentment of Supe&#039;s and Bat&#039;s overshadowing the villains&#039; accomplishments.) Supervillains are essentially little more than a shadow cast by the heroes themselves. 

Of course, none of this is something our heroic reporter would be stupid enough to point out to the supervillainess sitting across the table....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good writing, but still fails the contextual common sense test, as did &#8220;On Call.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a common conceit among writers that want to be &#8220;dark and gritty&#8221; or &#8220;investigate the human state of moral ambiguity&#8221; or whatever the popular term is for it these days in postmodern writing classes&#8212; introducing some contextual justification for the dualist worldview. &#8220;What is light without dark?&#8221; &#8220;Batman needs the Joker,&#8221; all the way to the extreme of &#8220;Heroes and villains are the same, just different names&#8230;&#8221; </p>
<p>Maybe a villainess would justify her own existence by clinging to the illusion that she was no different than the heroes or heroines&#8212; or that the heroes or heroines &#8220;needed&#8221; her (or the tacky justification that she was ignored for not having huge boobs&#8230;) but no sensible person would buy that excuse for a second. And it would obviously be an excuse. Every criminal or thug has some sort of convoluted self-justifying system: they were underappreciated, the world owed them for their hard life, their father abused them, they&#8217;re part of this &#8220;victim class&#8221; or the other, the good guys have it coming to them&#8230;. &#8220;The heroes need me to justify their existence&#8221; isn&#8217;t used so often in the real world, but it&#8217;s just as much a crock.</p>
<p>It wasn&#8217;t flashy villains in tights that Superman and Batman first battled; it was gangsters, thieves, spies, crooked businessmen&#8212; Superman even took a few panels to knock some sense into a common gutter-variety wifebeater in his first issue. And even without those, there were fires, floods, earthquakes, rampant monsters, crashing airplanes, and more that were beyond the capacity of mere mortal men.</p>
<p>Supervillains didn&#8217;t show up until late in the game. Lex Luthor was just another mad scientist, and the Joker was just a petty gangster thug who got maimed by his own stupidity.  Their theatrics and garish costumes and gimmicks were <i>in reaction to</i> the superheros and their flashy methodology.  (In fact most of the early stories revolved around LL&#8217;s and Joker&#8217;s envy and resentment of Supe&#8217;s and Bat&#8217;s overshadowing the villains&#8217; accomplishments.) Supervillains are essentially little more than a shadow cast by the heroes themselves. </p>
<p>Of course, none of this is something our heroic reporter would be stupid enough to point out to the supervillainess sitting across the table&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Weaver</title>
		<link>http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/07/10/interviewing-leather-part-three/#comment-166</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Weaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 18:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/07/10/interviewing-leather-part-three/#comment-166</guid>
		<description>That has to be the most practical, least melodramatic reason ever given to become a villain. Of course, it helps if you realize how absurd the whole thing is, and just play it for kicks.

It&#039;s interesting, though, how Leather still has that tiny scrap of good left, if only in an academic sense. She knows that there&#039;s a right thing to do in a situation, but she also knows there&#039;s almost nothing she&#039;ll get out of &lt;i&gt;doing&lt;/i&gt; it. She does what feels good for her, and really, isn&#039;t that what they all do?

Then there&#039;s the... shape argument. Superheroines in the limelight seem to have one universal, unspoken power: gravity-defying anatomy. Often ridiculously so. That body shape is part of acceptance as a heroine is annoying, but very true in their world. I can definitely see a normal-shaped woman, especially a super-powered one, not wanting to be an &quot;also-ran,&quot; and resenting the bizarre standard. One would hope that outcries like this don&#039;t just come from the villains&#039; points of view.

And Yes! A Transit cameo!... Even if only as an anecdote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That has to be the most practical, least melodramatic reason ever given to become a villain. Of course, it helps if you realize how absurd the whole thing is, and just play it for kicks.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s interesting, though, how Leather still has that tiny scrap of good left, if only in an academic sense. She knows that there&#8217;s a right thing to do in a situation, but she also knows there&#8217;s almost nothing she&#8217;ll get out of <i>doing</i> it. She does what feels good for her, and really, isn&#8217;t that what they all do?</p>
<p>Then there&#8217;s the&#8230; shape argument. Superheroines in the limelight seem to have one universal, unspoken power: gravity-defying anatomy. Often ridiculously so. That body shape is part of acceptance as a heroine is annoying, but very true in their world. I can definitely see a normal-shaped woman, especially a super-powered one, not wanting to be an &#8220;also-ran,&#8221; and resenting the bizarre standard. One would hope that outcries like this don&#8217;t just come from the villains&#8217; points of view.</p>
<p>And Yes! A Transit cameo!&#8230; Even if only as an anecdote.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric A. Burns</title>
		<link>http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/07/10/interviewing-leather-part-three/#comment-160</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric A. Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/07/10/interviewing-leather-part-three/#comment-160</guid>
		<description>Oh man. There&#039;s nothing but potential in Walla Walla. You&#039;re on your way, my friend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh man. There&#8217;s nothing but potential in Walla Walla. You&#8217;re on your way, my friend.</p>
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		<title>By: Moe Lane</title>
		<link>http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/07/10/interviewing-leather-part-three/#comment-159</link>
		<dc:creator>Moe Lane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/07/10/interviewing-leather-part-three/#comment-159</guid>
		<description>I personally took it as such.  Besides, I got Walla Walla, Washington in the last draft.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I personally took it as such.  Besides, I got Walla Walla, Washington in the last draft.  :)</p>
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		<title>By: Eric A. Burns</title>
		<link>http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/07/10/interviewing-leather-part-three/#comment-158</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric A. Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/07/10/interviewing-leather-part-three/#comment-158</guid>
		<description>(Actually, that bit was less about implying that Republicans were evil, and more about &#039;if you want to have influence in the world, there&#039;s easier and more effective ways of doing it than building a death ray.&#039;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Actually, that bit was less about implying that Republicans were evil, and more about &#8216;if you want to have influence in the world, there&#8217;s easier and more effective ways of doing it than building a death ray.&#8217;)</p>
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		<title>By: Eric A. Burns</title>
		<link>http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/07/10/interviewing-leather-part-three/#comment-157</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric A. Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/07/10/interviewing-leather-part-three/#comment-157</guid>
		<description>Admit it, Moe. You rule over Des Moines. &lt;em&gt;WITH AN IRON FIST!&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Admit it, Moe. You rule over Des Moines. <em>WITH AN IRON FIST!</em></p>
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		<title>By: Moe Lane</title>
		<link>http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/07/10/interviewing-leather-part-three/#comment-156</link>
		<dc:creator>Moe Lane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/07/10/interviewing-leather-part-three/#comment-156</guid>
		<description>“He’d get an assload of patents, make three billion dollars, and join the fucking Republican party.”

(sipping coffee and murmuring) Well, we do have an excellent pension plan.  Paid holidays, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“He’d get an assload of patents, make three billion dollars, and join the fucking Republican party.”</p>
<p>(sipping coffee and murmuring) Well, we do have an excellent pension plan.  Paid holidays, too.</p>
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