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	<title>Comments on: Interviewing Leather, Part Twelve</title>
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	<link>http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/09/20/interviewing-leather-part-twelve/</link>
	<description>Creative Mung from Eric A. Burns</description>
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		<title>By: Joel&#8217;s Scattered Thoughts &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Interviewing Leather</title>
		<link>http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/09/20/interviewing-leather-part-twelve/#comment-882</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel&#8217;s Scattered Thoughts &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Interviewing Leather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/09/20/interviewing-leather-part-twelve/#comment-882</guid>
		<description>[...] 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Part 7 Part 8 Part 9 Part 10 Part 11 Part 12 Part 13 Part 14   Filed under: Books  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Part 7 Part 8 Part 9 Part 10 Part 11 Part 12 Part 13 Part 14   Filed under: Books  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Gadzikowski</title>
		<link>http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/09/20/interviewing-leather-part-twelve/#comment-842</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Gadzikowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 01:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/09/20/interviewing-leather-part-twelve/#comment-842</guid>
		<description>I do see what you&#039;re saying. Now, that we&#039;re discussing it. But I didn&#039;t get it from the *story*. I may be the only one who didn&#039;t, and my mother&#039;s rule is not to worry about a criticism you disagree with till it comes from two betareaders, but there you are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do see what you&#8217;re saying. Now, that we&#8217;re discussing it. But I didn&#8217;t get it from the *story*. I may be the only one who didn&#8217;t, and my mother&#8217;s rule is not to worry about a criticism you disagree with till it comes from two betareaders, but there you are.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric A. Burns</title>
		<link>http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/09/20/interviewing-leather-part-twelve/#comment-838</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric A. Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/09/20/interviewing-leather-part-twelve/#comment-838</guid>
		<description>Hrm.

How can I best put this.

There are essentially two types of people in the world of Justice Wing. There are the people on the normal side of the street, and the people on the super side of the street.

The bank guards and the cops that Leather fought are on the normal side of the street. The cops did moderately better because they&#039;re better trained and paid, but a dozen or more cops got put onto the ground essentially in passing, with even specific note that Leather was doing the sort of moves you saw in movies because they were so outclassed they couldn&#039;t begin to compete.

The bank guards looked particularly in competent because they were clearly narrated. And they were also largely panicking, and they did progressively better or worse based upon that. The first guard essentially had no time to react before he lost his weapons belt. The second guard was scared but did his job -- he gave warning and was prepared to strike. The third guard panicked entirely.

As a side note? It isn&#039;t anywhere near as hard to get a job as a bank security guard as it is to become a police officer. These are often not trained professionals -- not just compared to law enforcement, but even compared to Brinks Security. Some banks have better guards than others, but some are just guys in uniform with mace and radios and &lt;em&gt;maybe&lt;/em&gt; a gun.

Darkhood has no super powers, but he is on the supers side of the street. He doesn&#039;t panic. He can hold his own. If he could have kept Leather at range, he would almost certainly have beaten her. When she closed on him, he still managed to make it a decent fight before he got kicked over the ledge. He is just as human as the guards and the cops, but he is on the other side of that street.

In a very real way, this entire story is about Todd Chapman crossing from the normals side to the supers side. He has no super powers, and he&#039;s not going to get any. He couldn&#039;t &lt;em&gt;fight&lt;/em&gt; Leather. But when he first got there and he was threatened with being thrown off the lair&#039;s roof, he went to jelly. At the end of the story, he can be curb stomped by the henchmen and come out of it snarky and asking questions.

The other thing you&#039;re not considering is the time frame involved. Leather smashes through the door, goes into a roll, and lands on a countertop. She announces there&#039;s a robbery in progress. She then hops down, disarms a guard, darts over a civilian, uses him as a shield, and attacks the second, throwing him into the third. However, &lt;em&gt;in&lt;/em&gt; that block of time, the second guard &lt;em&gt;actually got a shot off with mace&lt;/em&gt;.

She then took the first guard out with a coffeepot, while he was moving to retrieve his weapons.

So. In less than seven seconds, she entered and subdued the three guards. And in that block of time, one guard actually launched an attack and gave her a verbal warning, and a second guard, though disarmed in the first maybe two seconds of her entry, had enough of his head in the game to pursue his weapons so he&#039;d have any chance at all against her. It&#039;s true the third panicked, and grabbed the wrong piece of gear -- but he could have done the same thing if a guy with a .33 came in and shot bullets into the ceiling, too.

Chapman&#039;s comment was that a a woman doing handsprings in the lobby probably wasn&#039;t in the manual. This is true. But whatever is or isn&#039;t in the manual, I would be hard pressed to explain what more we could have expected from low paid, not terribly extensively trained bank guards in this situation. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hrm.</p>
<p>How can I best put this.</p>
<p>There are essentially two types of people in the world of Justice Wing. There are the people on the normal side of the street, and the people on the super side of the street.</p>
<p>The bank guards and the cops that Leather fought are on the normal side of the street. The cops did moderately better because they&#8217;re better trained and paid, but a dozen or more cops got put onto the ground essentially in passing, with even specific note that Leather was doing the sort of moves you saw in movies because they were so outclassed they couldn&#8217;t begin to compete.</p>
<p>The bank guards looked particularly in competent because they were clearly narrated. And they were also largely panicking, and they did progressively better or worse based upon that. The first guard essentially had no time to react before he lost his weapons belt. The second guard was scared but did his job &#8212; he gave warning and was prepared to strike. The third guard panicked entirely.</p>
<p>As a side note? It isn&#8217;t anywhere near as hard to get a job as a bank security guard as it is to become a police officer. These are often not trained professionals &#8212; not just compared to law enforcement, but even compared to Brinks Security. Some banks have better guards than others, but some are just guys in uniform with mace and radios and <em>maybe</em> a gun.</p>
<p>Darkhood has no super powers, but he is on the supers side of the street. He doesn&#8217;t panic. He can hold his own. If he could have kept Leather at range, he would almost certainly have beaten her. When she closed on him, he still managed to make it a decent fight before he got kicked over the ledge. He is just as human as the guards and the cops, but he is on the other side of that street.</p>
<p>In a very real way, this entire story is about Todd Chapman crossing from the normals side to the supers side. He has no super powers, and he&#8217;s not going to get any. He couldn&#8217;t <em>fight</em> Leather. But when he first got there and he was threatened with being thrown off the lair&#8217;s roof, he went to jelly. At the end of the story, he can be curb stomped by the henchmen and come out of it snarky and asking questions.</p>
<p>The other thing you&#8217;re not considering is the time frame involved. Leather smashes through the door, goes into a roll, and lands on a countertop. She announces there&#8217;s a robbery in progress. She then hops down, disarms a guard, darts over a civilian, uses him as a shield, and attacks the second, throwing him into the third. However, <em>in</em> that block of time, the second guard <em>actually got a shot off with mace</em>.</p>
<p>She then took the first guard out with a coffeepot, while he was moving to retrieve his weapons.</p>
<p>So. In less than seven seconds, she entered and subdued the three guards. And in that block of time, one guard actually launched an attack and gave her a verbal warning, and a second guard, though disarmed in the first maybe two seconds of her entry, had enough of his head in the game to pursue his weapons so he&#8217;d have any chance at all against her. It&#8217;s true the third panicked, and grabbed the wrong piece of gear &#8212; but he could have done the same thing if a guy with a .33 came in and shot bullets into the ceiling, too.</p>
<p>Chapman&#8217;s comment was that a a woman doing handsprings in the lobby probably wasn&#8217;t in the manual. This is true. But whatever is or isn&#8217;t in the manual, I would be hard pressed to explain what more we could have expected from low paid, not terribly extensively trained bank guards in this situation. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Gadzikowski</title>
		<link>http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/09/20/interviewing-leather-part-twelve/#comment-837</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Gadzikowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:56:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/09/20/interviewing-leather-part-twelve/#comment-837</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not saying the manual would read, &quot;Try bullets first. Aim for the head. If bullets don&#039;t work, try reflecting a magnifying glass off the marble floor. If that doesn&#039;t work, try the protective magic item you were issued at hiring ...&quot; etc. I&#039;m not saying the manual would tell the bank guard to be proactive. I&#039;m saying either the manual or his fellow guards with greater seniority would at least say, &quot;If it happens, put up your hands and get on the floor with the civilians like you&#039;re told, moron.&quot; 

It&#039;s inconsistent with the rest of this world that a set of bank guards working for a national chain in a decent-sized city would be reduced to extraprocedural confusion by a supervillains launching a robbery. One of them, maybe, a greenhorn, but not all of them. There would at least be corporate policy, even if this particular branch hadn&#039;t any experience. It&#039;s inconsistent to me, anyway, and it popped me right out of the story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not saying the manual would read, &#8220;Try bullets first. Aim for the head. If bullets don&#8217;t work, try reflecting a magnifying glass off the marble floor. If that doesn&#8217;t work, try the protective magic item you were issued at hiring &#8230;&#8221; etc. I&#8217;m not saying the manual would tell the bank guard to be proactive. I&#8217;m saying either the manual or his fellow guards with greater seniority would at least say, &#8220;If it happens, put up your hands and get on the floor with the civilians like you&#8217;re told, moron.&#8221; </p>
<p>It&#8217;s inconsistent with the rest of this world that a set of bank guards working for a national chain in a decent-sized city would be reduced to extraprocedural confusion by a supervillains launching a robbery. One of them, maybe, a greenhorn, but not all of them. There would at least be corporate policy, even if this particular branch hadn&#8217;t any experience. It&#8217;s inconsistent to me, anyway, and it popped me right out of the story.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric A. Burns</title>
		<link>http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/09/20/interviewing-leather-part-twelve/#comment-816</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric A. Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 02:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/09/20/interviewing-leather-part-twelve/#comment-816</guid>
		<description>Because of those magical words &quot;twelve-fifty an hour.&quot;

Normal humans need pretty decent training and small units tactics to be able to effectively deal with supervillains. And even then they usually fail. The police &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; trained to deal with superhumans and you saw how easily Leather thrashed them. Bank guards aren&#039;t paid enough to attract the kinds of specialists you need in these situations. The folks you &lt;em&gt;can&lt;/em&gt; get just try to deal with it like they would any other crime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because of those magical words &#8220;twelve-fifty an hour.&#8221;</p>
<p>Normal humans need pretty decent training and small units tactics to be able to effectively deal with supervillains. And even then they usually fail. The police <em>is</em> trained to deal with superhumans and you saw how easily Leather thrashed them. Bank guards aren&#8217;t paid enough to attract the kinds of specialists you need in these situations. The folks you <em>can</em> get just try to deal with it like they would any other crime.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Gadzikowski</title>
		<link>http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/09/20/interviewing-leather-part-twelve/#comment-815</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Gadzikowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 02:03:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/09/20/interviewing-leather-part-twelve/#comment-815</guid>
		<description>&quot;... the third guard, who had managed to get out his radio. Why his radio I have no idea — the alarm was already going off. But then, what would a security guard normally do when an acrobatic twentysomething began smashing things and doing handsprings in the lobby. I mean, it doesn’t come up in the training manuals, does it?&quot;

My visceral reaction to this can be articulated: Why doesn&#039;t it? In a world where supervillain henchmen have unions, why doesn&#039;t the training manual for bank guards include dealing with supervillains?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230; the third guard, who had managed to get out his radio. Why his radio I have no idea — the alarm was already going off. But then, what would a security guard normally do when an acrobatic twentysomething began smashing things and doing handsprings in the lobby. I mean, it doesn’t come up in the training manuals, does it?&#8221;</p>
<p>My visceral reaction to this can be articulated: Why doesn&#8217;t it? In a world where supervillain henchmen have unions, why doesn&#8217;t the training manual for bank guards include dealing with supervillains?</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Miller</title>
		<link>http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/09/20/interviewing-leather-part-twelve/#comment-800</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/09/20/interviewing-leather-part-twelve/#comment-800</guid>
		<description>Whoa--that was great stuff.  Thanks, Eric.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoa&#8211;that was great stuff.  Thanks, Eric.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate Sith</title>
		<link>http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/09/20/interviewing-leather-part-twelve/#comment-797</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Sith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/09/20/interviewing-leather-part-twelve/#comment-797</guid>
		<description>It is okay! No harm done. ^^</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is okay! No harm done. ^^</p>
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		<title>By: Eric A. Burns</title>
		<link>http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/09/20/interviewing-leather-part-twelve/#comment-796</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric A. Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/09/20/interviewing-leather-part-twelve/#comment-796</guid>
		<description>...okay, now I just feel dumb. And it&#039;s fixed now.

I mentioned how tired I am these days right? Right? *sigh*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;okay, now I just feel dumb. And it&#8217;s fixed now.</p>
<p>I mentioned how tired I am these days right? Right? *sigh*</p>
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		<title>By: Kate Sith</title>
		<link>http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/09/20/interviewing-leather-part-twelve/#comment-795</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Sith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:34:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://banter-latte.annotations.com/2007/09/20/interviewing-leather-part-twelve/#comment-795</guid>
		<description>Sorry. Got caught up in the silliness.

T-A-N-etc, not T-I-N.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry. Got caught up in the silliness.</p>
<p>T-A-N-etc, not T-I-N.</p>
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